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 THE CLONE ZONE 
Vice President

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:19 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Class: Jr. Clone
Chassis: Bandit
Engine: 4 cycle Clone
Post THE CLONE ZONE
"You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension. A dimension of sound... a dimension of sight...a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance....of things and ideas.
You've just crossed over into ......THE CLONE ZONE!"


I have been dissecting a new clone engine in my shop for the last couple days and thought I would tell everyone what I have found. I do understand where these engines are made and who they are made by, so I do take that into consideration.

First off, I got my engine kit and spread it all out on the work bench. Kind of like a kid on Halloween when you would run home and spread your candy out on the bed to see what you got.

Thanks to Bill Davis for the fast service and quick delivery.
I bought the engine without a flywheel, but did purchase an aluminum billet flywheel from ARC. Nice piece! First thing I did was to remove the sheet metal from the engine. My first check was to check the valve spring installed height with the official must go tech gauge. The AKRA rules state a measurement of .815 and the gauge must fit under the spring retainer with the valve stem seal installed.

However, the tech gauge would not go under the retainer. I removed the valve stem seal....still no go. This was on both the intake and exhaust valve. I even machined my own gauge at .815 and it wouldn't go either. So, there could be a remedy for this but it would involve some machine work, and would be illegal to do.
So, I will replace it with another head that is legal.

My next thing to look at was the deck height, or how far down in the cylinder the piston is at top dead center. For this, I installed a degree wheel to get absolute TDC. Front to back and side to side resulted in 3 different measurements. The smallest being .003, and the largest being .005. Not bad for an un-decked block. I have seen some as far down as .030. I guess I got lucky on this one. The head gasket measured .010, which with the short deck and the thin head gasket, it might be a little short on CC's. I haven't checked the CC's yet as I dropped my glass burrett and have another on order. If it comes up short, I could use a thicker head gasket of which there is no tech.

Next thing was to measure the stroke. I machined a special fixture to mount a 3" dial indicator to the deck. Using my degree wheel, I rotated the engine to bottom dead center(BDC), then calibrated the indicator to zero, and slowly moved the piston up to TDC. The stroke was off, but fell into the + .010 & -.005 range, so it is legal by the rules.

Am I boring you yet? I thought this would be good info for guys doing their own engines and things to look for. Where was I ?....Oh yeah...

I removed the side cover and removed the stock camshaft and lifters. I measured the lifters for length and found one to be .0015 longer than the other. I made note of which one so when I degree the camshaft, I will look at the lift to see if there is a difference. I didn't check any specs on the stock camshaft since I will be replacing it with a Dyno CL-1 cam. Then I removed the rod bolts and removed the rod and piston from the block. Then I removed the crankshaft. I bolted the rod cap back on the rod and re-torqued it to spec. I measured the rod and the crank journal to see what kind of clearance it had. Whoa! Big surprise. There was only .001 rod clearance. This spells disaster. There is not enough clearance to provide an oil cushion to lube the rod. If this engine was to run with this small clearance, it would lock up due to little lubrication to the rod causing the rod to break and damage everything inside the engine. The rules say no machining of rod. I measured the crankshaft journal and it was .008 out of spec. So....if I machined the crank to be within spec(which there is no machining allowed), I would have .006 clearance which is too much and the rod would break from being too sloppy.
. I also wanted to check the crankshaft for runout. I chucked it up in the lathe and installed a dial indicator. WOW! to my surprise, the crankshaft has .012 runout, which means it is bent. I was curious and have several Clone engines on hand, so I checked all the crankshafts. I didn't find one that was straight. The one with the least amount of runout was a Predator crank and it was .006, which is still alot.
If the cranks are left this way, they will cause a great deal of vibration, and the more RPM the worse it will get and could cause the flywheel to crash into the coil breaking it's mounts from the block. Result.....Junk block. I will straighten these crankshafts. I'm going to start work on a fixture to do this.

Another thing I noticed with this engines cylinder head was that the valve guides were somewhat tight. These need honed to prevent and valve sticking resulting in the valve hitting the piston and causing a bent valve or worse.

So, there you have it. Like I said, I know where these engines are made and didn't expect everything to be perfect. I just wanted to let the guys who are doing their own engines know of the things to look for and correct or replace before the tech man finds them and ruins your great day at the races.

Thanks for listening
Butch McCall

_________________
"It's not in my nature to spend money sparingly when I'm having a good time"


Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:43 pm
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 THE CLONE ZONE 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 390
Location: Hilliard, Ohio
Class: Tag Senior
Chassis: Kosmic T-11
Engine: Comet Parilla Leopard
Post Re: THE CLONE ZONE
Well done :) More to come I hope.

_________________
Greg C. Wilkinson
Driver- Angel Wilkinson
"Tag" Team Wilkinson
Kosmic/Comet Leopard
greg-wilkinson@sbcglobal.net
614-535-6977


Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:38 pm
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 THE CLONE ZONE 

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 164
Class: All
Chassis: DR
Post Re: THE CLONE ZONE
Some comments

1. Sounds like a perfect copy of those Hondas. :lol: I can say that because I work for Honda.
2. makes me appreaciate all 3 of my Yamaha's.
3. It does explain to me why some on these things scream and others do not.
5. Makes the Briggs look like a work of art
6. I understand why they are so cheap (because they are)
7. Yikes
8. I am so happy to not be into clones at this point in my karting life
9. This is a copy of a Honda.....makes me wonder what would result if they copied a Tecumsem. :roll:

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Mike Unger
Kartworks Inc
Driver Schools and more
614-314-5466


Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:35 am
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 THE CLONE ZONE 
Vice President

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:19 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Class: Jr. Clone
Chassis: Bandit
Engine: 4 cycle Clone
Post Re: THE CLONE ZONE
Well....after a couple days of dissecting a new Clone engine, and taking measurements and recording data that I came up with, I have come to the conclusion that these engines have to come apart to....either make them legal, or to bring them to within spec to prevent them from coming apart. I spent several hours yesterday trying to degree a CL-1 camshaft from Dyno cams. I kept coming up with a different number. Sometimes it would come into spec, and other times it would not.(that's when the hair pulling started) The camshaft has so much end play, and with the cam and crankshaft gear being helical cut...it would change by either advancing the camshaft or retarding it. Then, I spent 3 hours today straightening the crankshaft that was .012 out. I got it to within .0015. I re-installed the crank and camshaft and re-checked to camshaft. The intake side was good, but the exhaust side was still out of spec and I think that is due to the excessive camshaft end play.
Now....I am seeing why these engines are escalating in price from some builders.
If you wanted to use them as a throw away, you could, but if you wanted to keep it and make a "racing" engine out of it, it will be very labor intensive. I'm not posting all of this to scare anyone away, it's just what I've found and wanted to let folks know, that don't be surprised if a Tech Man tosses you for something that's not your fault.
So....my plans for this engine is to turn it into a Builder Prepared, which quite honestly...the "Box Stock" would be considered a BP due to all the adjustments you would have to make.

Dyno Cams made an announcement today that they will NOT be selling the new steel billet flywheel due to their concerns about it.( I posted it on the forum) I will look at one hopefully Thursday and make my decision as to weather I would want to run one. Right now, with all the bad press and sparse availability of these new flywheels, I will make a determination as to weather to mandate a billet aluminum flywheel for the Comm. Pt, Street Race. This dicision will be based strictly on safety. There are many, many spectators at the street race, and I want them to be as safe as possible. If anyone has any questions, or would like to discuss anything, feel free to call me or stop by the shop.

Butch McCall
614-595-2029 cell

_________________
"It's not in my nature to spend money sparingly when I'm having a good time"


Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:13 pm
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 THE CLONE ZONE 

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:26 am
Posts: 164
Class: All
Chassis: DR
Post Re: THE CLONE ZONE
Uh Butch

Based on the fact that you dont have all that much hair left you might not want to get into this clone thing................... :D

Just pointing out the obvious.

_________________
Mike Unger
Kartworks Inc
Driver Schools and more
614-314-5466


Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:46 pm
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 THE CLONE ZONE 
Vice President

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:19 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Class: Jr. Clone
Chassis: Bandit
Engine: 4 cycle Clone
Post Re: THE CLONE ZONE
Mike Unger wrote:
Uh Butch

Based on the fact that you dont have all that much hair left you might not want to get into this clone thing................... :D

Just pointing out the obvious.




Well Mike......I did join the Hair Club for Men.....just for that reason!!

I had a friend who had a hair transplant. Then on a drunken bet...shaved his head.
I owe him $20.00

_________________
"It's not in my nature to spend money sparingly when I'm having a good time"


Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:08 pm
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